I find it very interesting now, they have decided NOT to include the live chat thread - there were too many of us asking questions, not given a chance to participate, or our questions if asked publicly were sloughed off by Pardy!
Pardon ME! But I'm beginning to feel some nefarious infiltration - anyone else have the same heebeejeebies?
Here is a segment out of the book I have from the clan mothers who wrote about the Treaty's - "proof is found in the archives of the Basque Nations, log books found from the 1300’sshows beaver pelts from the America’s as well as other items traded along their ocean journey with other Signatory Nations long before the Crown and Pope claimed to have discovered the Signatory American Nations Territory or any other Signatory Nations Territory upon Grandmother Earth."
What I find interesting in reading this is during my visit to the Basque region in 2017, I went to the 'summer palace' of King Louis XIV - my ancestry traced back to his heir - as the first 'Page' boy (knight in training' was my ancestor.
Then finding out that according to the history I learned in school and reading "Barkskins" by Annie Proulx, piecing things together that sounded exceptionally confected. I awoke last night with the thought that - King Louis' ships sailed from France in 1546 with my forebears and is it possible they 'traced' or 'followed' the returning canoes of the Original Peoples of what they call Kanat`an on Turtle Island.
If not pieces of the puzzle to ancestral knowledge, it makes for at least a probability maybe worth exploring.
"During the meeting, Popois mentioned the Eye of Camel Treaty of 408 AD, this was signed in Europe with the Dakota’s representing the North America’s Nations. The best presentation and eye opener of history unaccounted for in our education system, at least where I went to public schools in BC, Canada - here is Lester Howse presentation:"
Unaccounted for in anyone's education system for the simple reason that it never happened. All this demonstrates is that indigenous people are just as capable as any other people in making up "history" AKA myths that support their world view.
The indigenous people of North, Central and South America need to come clean about their own history if they plan on being taken seriously. This includes internecine warfare, slavery, human sacrifice and cannibalism (Azteca). In short, they were just as capable as any other people throughout history of being brutal, warlike and uncompromising when it suited their needs. Glossing this over with an invented history that describes some sort of overarching peace and mutual acceptance of each other by virtue of some divine force is simply nonsense not borne out by the facts.
According to their logic, I should demand reparations from the French (Normans) that invaded my ancestral lands (Britain) in 1066. Likewise, the Italian government, as inheritor of the Roman Empire, should make reparations for their subjugation of Britain centuries before that. How far back do you want to go? Norway, as home of the Vikings, has a lot to answer for as do the Danes. More recently, Crimean Tatars have claims against Russia as the inheritor of the USSR, as do Sikhs and Hindus against Pakistan during the partition, and Muslims against India for the same reason. Then there's the Palestinians.
You go down this road and it's endless. Everyone everywhere has some grievance against some other people at some point in their history. Armenia vs. the Turks. Kurds vs. Turkey, Iraq and Iran. Nigeria vs Biafra. Ethiopia vs. Eritrea. Ecuador vs. Peru. Tibet vs China. East Timor vs. Indonesia. The Philippines vs. Spain. Brazil vs. Portugal. I could go on.
I'm not saying their isn't a case for reparations in some instances, but you have to very careful when assessing that as a national policy. No one living today had anything to do with what happened 2 hundred or 2 thousand years ago, and their willingness to accept a need for reparations has to be balanced against that reality, otherwise resentment is bound to set in, and that can only impede progress, not enhance it. You can see that clearly in the controversy over reparations to the descendants of slavery in the USA, in particular in California, which was not even a state at the time and has no history of slavery.
One gets controversial over time and time again of proven take over by the British Imperial Colonialism.
Take a look at Hawai`i right now and their efforts to release themselves of the occupation of their Hawaiian Nation. Things change as laws reveal the wrong doing in International Rights.
I'm not going to buy into the "things are this way now, and forever more, hold your tongue" we all have to decide what we focus on.
At any rate, I'm preferring the transition to a Spiritual path the original peoples offer over this current course of political shenanigans we are heading towards.
Transition from the know to the unknown isn't easy for many.
What is apparent however, is that through scrutiny in the SCC the indigenous doctrines - were legends and something like a treaty is recorded with signatures.
So neither you nor I were there at the Eye of Camel Treaty - so, we can only rely on facts and resources that we feel are accurate.
I've seen and heard enough to believe this and many other historical accounts have been completely misdirected by the very ones who wish to control their society - for isn't through the education that the indoctrinations begin?
Personally, I prefer open source education that responds in creative thinking versus the closed source of limiting outcomes.
Cheers, thanks for your response, I'm sure there are others who have learned through a similar path of historical accounts as you have @ebear.
"So neither you nor I were there at the Eye of Camel Treaty - so, we can only rely on facts and resources that we feel are accurate."
Exactly my point. First question, how did the Dakota even reach Rome? I've sailed the North Atlantic and I can tell you it's not an easy crossing. You'd need a ship at least as good as what the Vikings had and there's no evidence for any vessel of that sort in North America circa 400AD. More to the point, there's no record in Roman history of any such encounter, and the Romans were meticulous record keepers, which is why we know so much about them.
There are many examples of people past and present inventing stories about themselves. Archaeologists studying ancient Egypt were confused by the dates written on tombs that placed the birth of their empire at a much earlier time than what scientific dating methods indicated. Turned out they were exaggerating to make themselves appear more ancient and thus more important than Rome, Greece and Persia. Present day Ukraine has rewritten their own recent history to absolve themselves of collaborating with Nazis, which included the murder of Jews living in their territory. We even had one of those rat bastards applauded in parliament recently, which demonstrates how far Canada has fallen.
As for the peaceful natives of the New World, again, complete denial of the facts. Where I live the population is 30% Coast Salish. Ask them about the Haida raids in pre-contact times. People of the southern Island lived in constant fear of the Haida. Even a feel-good movie like Dances With Wolves pointed out the hostility between the Lakota and Pawnee. Then there was the constant warfare between Iroquois tribes which only ended in 1570 when they formed the 6 Nations Confederacy, probably in response to the threat posed by European colonists. Much the same elsewhere, whenever territories overlapped and competition for resources occurred.
I'm evidence based. I go where the evidence leads, whether I like it or not. Granted it's not always easy to discern the truth, which is why I maintain a skeptical view of everything until I see convincing evidence, preferably from multiple independent sources. That's why I'm fairly confident, from my own experience, and from what I've read when I say this:
Indigenous people of North America (or anywhere else for that matter) have no claim to a superior way of life or a deeper spirituality than anyone else, regardless of what their myths and legends tell them. They are only human after all. Sure they were hard done by, like everyone else at some point or another, and certain restitutions should be made, provided they're in line with current realities, but that's all that's owed in my opinion. Making them out to be something they never were is a disservice to them as well as ourselves. It inculcates the belief that something greater was lost than is actually the case, and that can only foster resentment.
"Occupying an inhabited land is an act of war, in international law."
True in principle, but only established in Law since the Peace of Westphalia in 1648, which came after first contact and colonization. A basic principle in Law is that no law can be retroactive, so there's no more claim there than I have about the Normans in 1066. Even today the rule isn't respected, as witness the Israeli occupation of Palestine since 1948. Truth of the matter is, you only own what you can hold, and that's been true since the dawn of time.
Good question the Dakota's would likely have that information... I just know from my own personal capabilities traveling on rivers and lakes in small kayaks and having a connection with the forces of nature and the knowing of weather how to anticipate things, but perhaps they just had an inner capability we have lost.
Anyways, there is much in the world we do not know of especially of the wisdoms of other generations before us, a good example is the research done by Wade Davis - The Wayfinders - Polynesians traveled the world in ancient times by celestial navigation and other methods for example: https://daviswade.com/book-the-wayfinders
As per historical records, there is an account of a record book in the British Museum dating 2000 years prior to the oldest know recorded Bible - that was of interpretations of the indigenous spiritual and other details.
I would imagine that it would be possible to find record of these 6 World Treaty's and it may be not with the Roman Empire. Imperial Colonialism has been fought against since millennia, wouldn't you agree. So this is my concern that we are up against yet again today... only the Roman Empire turned into the Venetian then the British Empire of today...and it seems to be holding strong to a Malthusian focus of depopulation at this time. Which is one of the major ideologies' of Agenda 21.
There is a book called "Forbidden Archaeology" you may find interesting... if you like looking into things. It too agrees with the concept of warping time dates and events.
Yes agreed Canada has fallen and it is at the hands of the British Colonial Imperialism - that's why I'm looking for another way... that means turning over all rocks and seeking methods that align more in a world of today with ancient wisdom that doesn't align with oligarchy and Pastor Thomas Malthus quite frankly.
Yes, the Haida may have been at war with the Coast Salish, but now they are talking about a New and Better world together.
I hear you on many counts, however after what all they've been through, they are in fact rising up together at least the Hereditary are, because it seems the Band Councils are yet another corporate entity.
If in International Law, the land we know as Canada has been identified as unceded and has been recognized as being occupied, then, what are we to do but to work with the Laws that govern all peoples worldwide?
Yes the Treaty of Westphalia is what we need again today, but the idea that first contact came after that is very debatable - according to the knowledge (which is accepted in international courts) of the Original Peoples Treaty's and travel history. Doctrines of Discovery have been debunked.
To establish a country, one has to identify with it being inhabited, and that a culture and language exists, and there are boundaries, this is by rote memory but is close to how they defined occupied lands in International Law.
Agreed. I would add that being a good neighbour starts with being useful. That is to say, doing things that add value to your community without an expectation of reward. I find that spirit still exists on the Island, whereas it seems to have largely disappeared in Vancouver where I lived for many years.
The old saying, 'history is written by the victors' holds true, and there's certainly a lot of fake history to unravel. That said, If I were representing first nations before a Canadian court I wouldn't bring up 408AD simply because it lacks supporting documentation. I would stick to the known treaties that all parties recognize. There's enough basis there for restitution without drawing on archaic sources which can easily be called into question, whether true or not. That's a lawyer's perspective of course, but that's what you need to win cases.
I share many of your concerns, but as I said, I'm focused on what can be definitively proven, which isn't always easy. In view of that, I tend to focus on more recent events that are well documented by independent sources, such as the conflict in Occupied Palestine. As an individual there's not a lot I can do there either, but at least I can promote a charity on my substack that sends aid to the Palestinians and donate as much as I can when I can.
Here is the video replay - https://www.youtube.com/live/RYr2mLCeTGA?si=wkr07R9EN443SIt5
I find it very interesting now, they have decided NOT to include the live chat thread - there were too many of us asking questions, not given a chance to participate, or our questions if asked publicly were sloughed off by Pardy!
Pardon ME! But I'm beginning to feel some nefarious infiltration - anyone else have the same heebeejeebies?
I keep finding others posts that supports my theories here is another:
Canada’s Elites Suppressing Freedom of Speech on
Indigenous Matters
It would be in the best interest of Canadians if our elites shed their hostility
towards those who disagree with them. But to do this, they need to
develop the confidence and open-mindedness that the French philosopher
Montaigne implied when he wrote: “When I am contradicted it arouses my
attention, not my wrath. I move towards the man who contradicts me; he
is instructing me. The cause of truth ought to be common to both of us.”
But in discussing indigenous issues, the Canadian elites are inexplicably
unwilling to grant to others the same Charter of Rights free-speech
presumptions that they keep for themselves when they support “antiZionists” shouting obnoxious statements and insults. When they do this
they are dividing people, losing our trust, and increasing the grave harm to
all Canadians, but especially to indigenous Canadians.
https://www.theepochtimes.com/opinion/canadas-elites-suppress-freedomof-speech-on-indigenous-matters-5656595
An interesting point of view from CPU Power Shift group, holds some similar values:
https://track.thecpu.ca/emailviewinbrowser?nid=6300657658626048&eid=6573069848281088
Here is a segment out of the book I have from the clan mothers who wrote about the Treaty's - "proof is found in the archives of the Basque Nations, log books found from the 1300’sshows beaver pelts from the America’s as well as other items traded along their ocean journey with other Signatory Nations long before the Crown and Pope claimed to have discovered the Signatory American Nations Territory or any other Signatory Nations Territory upon Grandmother Earth."
What I find interesting in reading this is during my visit to the Basque region in 2017, I went to the 'summer palace' of King Louis XIV - my ancestry traced back to his heir - as the first 'Page' boy (knight in training' was my ancestor.
Then finding out that according to the history I learned in school and reading "Barkskins" by Annie Proulx, piecing things together that sounded exceptionally confected. I awoke last night with the thought that - King Louis' ships sailed from France in 1546 with my forebears and is it possible they 'traced' or 'followed' the returning canoes of the Original Peoples of what they call Kanat`an on Turtle Island.
If not pieces of the puzzle to ancestral knowledge, it makes for at least a probability maybe worth exploring.
"During the meeting, Popois mentioned the Eye of Camel Treaty of 408 AD, this was signed in Europe with the Dakota’s representing the North America’s Nations. The best presentation and eye opener of history unaccounted for in our education system, at least where I went to public schools in BC, Canada - here is Lester Howse presentation:"
Unaccounted for in anyone's education system for the simple reason that it never happened. All this demonstrates is that indigenous people are just as capable as any other people in making up "history" AKA myths that support their world view.
The indigenous people of North, Central and South America need to come clean about their own history if they plan on being taken seriously. This includes internecine warfare, slavery, human sacrifice and cannibalism (Azteca). In short, they were just as capable as any other people throughout history of being brutal, warlike and uncompromising when it suited their needs. Glossing this over with an invented history that describes some sort of overarching peace and mutual acceptance of each other by virtue of some divine force is simply nonsense not borne out by the facts.
According to their logic, I should demand reparations from the French (Normans) that invaded my ancestral lands (Britain) in 1066. Likewise, the Italian government, as inheritor of the Roman Empire, should make reparations for their subjugation of Britain centuries before that. How far back do you want to go? Norway, as home of the Vikings, has a lot to answer for as do the Danes. More recently, Crimean Tatars have claims against Russia as the inheritor of the USSR, as do Sikhs and Hindus against Pakistan during the partition, and Muslims against India for the same reason. Then there's the Palestinians.
You go down this road and it's endless. Everyone everywhere has some grievance against some other people at some point in their history. Armenia vs. the Turks. Kurds vs. Turkey, Iraq and Iran. Nigeria vs Biafra. Ethiopia vs. Eritrea. Ecuador vs. Peru. Tibet vs China. East Timor vs. Indonesia. The Philippines vs. Spain. Brazil vs. Portugal. I could go on.
I'm not saying their isn't a case for reparations in some instances, but you have to very careful when assessing that as a national policy. No one living today had anything to do with what happened 2 hundred or 2 thousand years ago, and their willingness to accept a need for reparations has to be balanced against that reality, otherwise resentment is bound to set in, and that can only impede progress, not enhance it. You can see that clearly in the controversy over reparations to the descendants of slavery in the USA, in particular in California, which was not even a state at the time and has no history of slavery.
Occupying an inhabited land is an act of war, in international law.
This isn't my doing, just responding to the international laws that are unfolding.
I am responding in compassion to the attempts at the controls of most wars stemming from the very same source and controls of the Green New Deal pushed upon us from the origins of King Charles' family. https://larouchepub.com/other/2021/4807-prince_charles_invented_green_nd.html
One gets controversial over time and time again of proven take over by the British Imperial Colonialism.
Take a look at Hawai`i right now and their efforts to release themselves of the occupation of their Hawaiian Nation. Things change as laws reveal the wrong doing in International Rights.
I'm not going to buy into the "things are this way now, and forever more, hold your tongue" we all have to decide what we focus on.
At any rate, I'm preferring the transition to a Spiritual path the original peoples offer over this current course of political shenanigans we are heading towards.
Transition from the know to the unknown isn't easy for many.
What is apparent however, is that through scrutiny in the SCC the indigenous doctrines - were legends and something like a treaty is recorded with signatures.
So neither you nor I were there at the Eye of Camel Treaty - so, we can only rely on facts and resources that we feel are accurate.
I've seen and heard enough to believe this and many other historical accounts have been completely misdirected by the very ones who wish to control their society - for isn't through the education that the indoctrinations begin?
Personally, I prefer open source education that responds in creative thinking versus the closed source of limiting outcomes.
Cheers, thanks for your response, I'm sure there are others who have learned through a similar path of historical accounts as you have @ebear.
Life could be better, for all of us!
"So neither you nor I were there at the Eye of Camel Treaty - so, we can only rely on facts and resources that we feel are accurate."
Exactly my point. First question, how did the Dakota even reach Rome? I've sailed the North Atlantic and I can tell you it's not an easy crossing. You'd need a ship at least as good as what the Vikings had and there's no evidence for any vessel of that sort in North America circa 400AD. More to the point, there's no record in Roman history of any such encounter, and the Romans were meticulous record keepers, which is why we know so much about them.
There are many examples of people past and present inventing stories about themselves. Archaeologists studying ancient Egypt were confused by the dates written on tombs that placed the birth of their empire at a much earlier time than what scientific dating methods indicated. Turned out they were exaggerating to make themselves appear more ancient and thus more important than Rome, Greece and Persia. Present day Ukraine has rewritten their own recent history to absolve themselves of collaborating with Nazis, which included the murder of Jews living in their territory. We even had one of those rat bastards applauded in parliament recently, which demonstrates how far Canada has fallen.
As for the peaceful natives of the New World, again, complete denial of the facts. Where I live the population is 30% Coast Salish. Ask them about the Haida raids in pre-contact times. People of the southern Island lived in constant fear of the Haida. Even a feel-good movie like Dances With Wolves pointed out the hostility between the Lakota and Pawnee. Then there was the constant warfare between Iroquois tribes which only ended in 1570 when they formed the 6 Nations Confederacy, probably in response to the threat posed by European colonists. Much the same elsewhere, whenever territories overlapped and competition for resources occurred.
I'm evidence based. I go where the evidence leads, whether I like it or not. Granted it's not always easy to discern the truth, which is why I maintain a skeptical view of everything until I see convincing evidence, preferably from multiple independent sources. That's why I'm fairly confident, from my own experience, and from what I've read when I say this:
Indigenous people of North America (or anywhere else for that matter) have no claim to a superior way of life or a deeper spirituality than anyone else, regardless of what their myths and legends tell them. They are only human after all. Sure they were hard done by, like everyone else at some point or another, and certain restitutions should be made, provided they're in line with current realities, but that's all that's owed in my opinion. Making them out to be something they never were is a disservice to them as well as ourselves. It inculcates the belief that something greater was lost than is actually the case, and that can only foster resentment.
"Occupying an inhabited land is an act of war, in international law."
True in principle, but only established in Law since the Peace of Westphalia in 1648, which came after first contact and colonization. A basic principle in Law is that no law can be retroactive, so there's no more claim there than I have about the Normans in 1066. Even today the rule isn't respected, as witness the Israeli occupation of Palestine since 1948. Truth of the matter is, you only own what you can hold, and that's been true since the dawn of time.
Hi again @ebear,
Good question the Dakota's would likely have that information... I just know from my own personal capabilities traveling on rivers and lakes in small kayaks and having a connection with the forces of nature and the knowing of weather how to anticipate things, but perhaps they just had an inner capability we have lost.
Anyways, there is much in the world we do not know of especially of the wisdoms of other generations before us, a good example is the research done by Wade Davis - The Wayfinders - Polynesians traveled the world in ancient times by celestial navigation and other methods for example: https://daviswade.com/book-the-wayfinders
As per historical records, there is an account of a record book in the British Museum dating 2000 years prior to the oldest know recorded Bible - that was of interpretations of the indigenous spiritual and other details.
I would imagine that it would be possible to find record of these 6 World Treaty's and it may be not with the Roman Empire. Imperial Colonialism has been fought against since millennia, wouldn't you agree. So this is my concern that we are up against yet again today... only the Roman Empire turned into the Venetian then the British Empire of today...and it seems to be holding strong to a Malthusian focus of depopulation at this time. Which is one of the major ideologies' of Agenda 21.
There is a book called "Forbidden Archaeology" you may find interesting... if you like looking into things. It too agrees with the concept of warping time dates and events.
Yes agreed Canada has fallen and it is at the hands of the British Colonial Imperialism - that's why I'm looking for another way... that means turning over all rocks and seeking methods that align more in a world of today with ancient wisdom that doesn't align with oligarchy and Pastor Thomas Malthus quite frankly.
Yes, the Haida may have been at war with the Coast Salish, but now they are talking about a New and Better world together.
I hear you on many counts, however after what all they've been through, they are in fact rising up together at least the Hereditary are, because it seems the Band Councils are yet another corporate entity.
If in International Law, the land we know as Canada has been identified as unceded and has been recognized as being occupied, then, what are we to do but to work with the Laws that govern all peoples worldwide?
Yes the Treaty of Westphalia is what we need again today, but the idea that first contact came after that is very debatable - according to the knowledge (which is accepted in international courts) of the Original Peoples Treaty's and travel history. Doctrines of Discovery have been debunked.
To establish a country, one has to identify with it being inhabited, and that a culture and language exists, and there are boundaries, this is by rote memory but is close to how they defined occupied lands in International Law.
Love having this discussion with you!
I too am in Coast Salish area~
I love following Matt Ehret and Cynthia Chung - they really have a new and interesting way to view history written for a 'particular audience' and have questioned that narrative and blown a lot of it out of the waters of perceptivity today. Here is their piece on the Treaty of Westphalia: https://canadianpatriot.org/2021/07/08/why-the-1648-westphalian-treaty-must-be-defended-as-a-remedy-to-the-unipolar-rules-based-order/
Let's start by practicing being GOOD NEIGHBORS! :)
Agreed. I would add that being a good neighbour starts with being useful. That is to say, doing things that add value to your community without an expectation of reward. I find that spirit still exists on the Island, whereas it seems to have largely disappeared in Vancouver where I lived for many years.
I follow them both and I agree. Excellent sources, very well researched. I'll read that article later tonight.
The old saying, 'history is written by the victors' holds true, and there's certainly a lot of fake history to unravel. That said, If I were representing first nations before a Canadian court I wouldn't bring up 408AD simply because it lacks supporting documentation. I would stick to the known treaties that all parties recognize. There's enough basis there for restitution without drawing on archaic sources which can easily be called into question, whether true or not. That's a lawyer's perspective of course, but that's what you need to win cases.
I share many of your concerns, but as I said, I'm focused on what can be definitively proven, which isn't always easy. In view of that, I tend to focus on more recent events that are well documented by independent sources, such as the conflict in Occupied Palestine. As an individual there's not a lot I can do there either, but at least I can promote a charity on my substack that sends aid to the Palestinians and donate as much as I can when I can.
And the white bison calf prophecy was born at yellowstone recently!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/articles/ckrrlpdlzj7o